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September 02, 2010, 06:00:02 PM
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haydon in the lead
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Author Topic: Worst Case: Collider Spawns Planet-Devouring Black Hole  (Read 747 times)
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atthisaddress
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« on: September 09, 2008, 02:58:56 PM »

According to Jonathan Feng, a theoretical particle physicist at the University of California, Irvine, to form black holes, the Large Hadron Collider would need to generate many billions of times more energy than it can.

Even if black holes formed, he said, they would be smaller than protons—which fit in the nuclei of atoms—and would evaporate in a miniscule fraction of a second, "long before they could grow by [absorbing] other matter," he wrote.

"Thus, even if black holes are produced at the LHC, they will not annihilate the Earth."

But Feng was willing to lay out his worst-case scenario, he said, "as long as we make it very clear we're going off the deep end."

If a black hole did form and begin eating Earth, there would be no spectacular display, Feng said.

"This tiny little black hole grows little by little and starts eating up the Earth," he said.

"It has to loop back, and it's a little bit like a comet that has an orbit that keeps going through the Earth."

After absorbing the entire Earth—how long it would take is unclear—the black hole would be nearly the size a golf ball but would have the same mass as Earth did before it was gobbled up.

The baby black hole would simply take Earth's place in the solar system, Feng said.

"The moon would be orbiting around this little 'golf ball,' and the other planets would orbit just as they are now," he added.

And even with the most sophisticated of observational techniques, potential intelligent beings in another galaxy would be oblivious to the change.

The lights of Earth would of course be gone, "but the fact is that no one [in another galaxy] can see that anyway," because the illumination is simply too faint for intergalactic detection.

                                         Shocked

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/09/080909-black-hole.html
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lakelady
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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2008, 03:24:59 PM »

hrm, could it be that it might take a little over four years to eat the earth and that's what all the dire 2012 predictions are about?

gotta make ya wonder now and again eh?

 Evil  Roll Eyes
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Jeff
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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2008, 03:30:01 PM »

Eh.  Throw the damned switch and let's be done with it.
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lakelady
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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2008, 05:00:36 PM »

watch it live on the web.

http://webcast.cern.ch/index.html
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m8trix
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2008, 05:15:40 AM »

I tried all I could get was this




Switch to Flash
   LHC First Beam - 10th September 2008 - 9am CEST (GMT+2)

Due to a huge interest for this live video feed of the LHC First Beam day, you may not be able to see the live video stream and we apologise for this.
Please try reloading the page, come back later, or check the other connection options available on this page.
Many thanks for your interest in CERN and the LHC!

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Well we are still here

Quote
hrm, could it be that it might take a little over four years to eat the earth and that's what all the dire 2012 predictions are about?



http://www.greatdreams.com/2012.htm

Naaaa more likely we are going to nuke ourselves when the time comes.
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atthisaddress
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2008, 12:21:48 PM »

In short, the LHC represents man's biggest and most powerful achievement to date.  The scientific minds powering on the device today are in search for nothing less than the answers to our biggest questions about where did it all begin?

And to think it could have been built in the USA, with all those jobs and research located here. Sad...
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lakelady
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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2008, 02:25:57 PM »

to commemorate this day how about a T-Shirt

I survived the Large Hadron Collider T-Shirt

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lector
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« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2008, 02:37:12 PM »

That T-shirt is a collectors item. If you want to see if a black hole has already devoured the earth, you have to look here.
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Jeff
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« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2008, 05:52:23 PM »

Great video giving a layman's explanation of what the LHC does.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQNpucos9wc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQNpucos9wc</a>
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atthisaddress
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2010, 11:13:53 AM »

As it turns out, scientists may have been creating black holes for some time. Nuclear physicists colliding massive particles created what they called "quark soup" - which have the same predicted properties of black holes.

The book I've been reading, "The Black Hole War", is the best and most up-to-date thing I've read about the current state of physics. It turns out that if string theory is an accurate model of how the universe works, both the Theory of Relativity and Quantum mechanics are correct in their descrption of black holes. Despite the fact they seem contradictory, that is only a consequence of perspective.

That means my earlier claims about their failure to describe black holes were wrong (and so were the books I was basing my claims from), and Reality was correct to call me out on it.

In all fairness, if he knew about the current string theory physics he should have pointed me in the right direction. 
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Reality
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« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2010, 01:00:50 PM »

Perhaps, but there are also other models that too confirm dimensionless points. The main problem is though, the books I read on the subject are, well, not layman's material and I had to talk with theorist for the Niels Bohr institute for a few years to understand it. I am happy you found a book that explained it in a way you would accept. The only books I know of are neck deep in formulas.

But quark soup may not be, well, black holes, as we understand them today, both in layman and physical terms. While they may be dimensionless points, they lack event horizons. Now THAT is weird.
And I thought the disconnect between Hawkings radiation and entanglement was strange.
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atthisaddress
Blaze
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« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2010, 11:12:43 AM »

I am happy you found a book that explained it in a way you would accept. The only books I know of are neck deep in formulas.


There were some basic mathematic formulas in the book - no way to avoid it, really. They were throughly explained by the author, who I imagine is a terrific professor.

The real problem now is to follow up with further reading. 99% of the books out there for laymen are completely out of date.
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Reality
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« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2010, 09:15:01 PM »

99% of the physics text books are over 20 years old.
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atthisaddress
Blaze
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« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2010, 10:58:49 AM »

The study of 'strings' is not - strictly speaking - a scientific theory as of yet. That may all change with results of the Large Hadron Collider. As of now, it is a collection of tools that may or may not reflect a deeper physical reality. Is it worth studying? Absolutely.
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Reality
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« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2010, 01:13:22 PM »

Except it is a theory. The mathematical formula became a theory as soon as the left side of the equation equaled the right side, literally speaking.

Disclaimer: There is a deep conflict in the community, with one camp stating string theory is a mathematical model and not a physical theory.

But Kudos to you atta for picking up on dual resonance model history of string theory. To say it strictly, you should say electrons and quarks are 1 dimensional lines, strings, that can also be described and points and surfaces.
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