Epigenetics and natural selection - Darwin challenged?

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[atthisaddress]

http://www.pnas.org/content/94/20/10750.full

I love doing this to people.

Thank you! I haven't read this particular paper on spandrels before, and will relish every word. The single sentence that mentions the hump of the Irish Elk hardly seems to be the dominant example, eh?

[Reality]

Which is closely related to the shoulder hump, a load bearing structure and byproduct of those antlers. Spandrels could be his greatest contribution to evolutionary theory, which is why shoulder humps are more important in this debate than antlers.

"Evolutionary biology needs such an explicit term for features arising as byproducts, rather than adaptations, whatever their subsequent exaptive utility. The concept of biological spandrels—including the examples here given of masculinized genitalia in female hyenas, exaptive use of an umbilicus as a brooding chamber by snails, the shoulder hump of the giant Irish deer, and several key features of human mentality—anchors the critique of overreliance upon adaptive scenarios in evolutionary explanation."

You know, I kinda wish I went with the "masculinized genitalia in female hyenas" instead of the shoulder hump. That would have been so funny.

[atthisaddress]

Spandrels are an important contribution, but with the rise of knowledge about epigenetics, punctuated equilibrium has received additional support as well.

Gould was a giant intellect.

[Reality]

Still, I think it is funny that someone studied male nipples and clit ripples.

[atthisaddress]

It's a tough job, but someone has to do it... it reminds me of a study that concluded that human women had the most prominent buttocks of all the primate females.

[Richmedia]

It's a tough job, but someone has to do it... it reminds me of a study that concluded that human women had the most prominent buttocks of all the primate females.

Did anyone really need a study to find that out? Human female breasts are an even more prominent example.

I'm still waiting for some example that Darwin's theory has shown cross-species evolution, or at least cross-genus. I agree and have no quibble with inline species evolution, it is out there and plain for anyone to see.

It's the mankind evolved from a single-cell amoeba or chimps that I have an issue with. None of that has been proven by any stretch of the imagination, even though it's been taught as fact. That concept is still strictly an abstract concept only, it is not fact.

[lakelady]

if you think that the theory of evolution states that homo sapiens evolved from chimps you don't know much about it at all. We have a common ancestor(s) and chimps and humans branched out from those ancestors a looooong time ago. Whenever I hear someone talk about being decended from monkeys I know I'm talking to someone who doesn't know much about this branch of science.

[atthisaddress]

It's a tough job, but someone has to do it... it reminds me of a study that concluded that human women had the most prominent buttocks of all the primate females.

Did anyone really need a study to find that out?

Absolutely. It made me sad I didn't go into basic research.

Human female breasts are an even more prominent example.

Perhaps it isn't too late! Quick, where's my local Universities' syllabus?

[atthisaddress]

Whenever I hear someone talk about being decended from monkeys I know I'm talking to someone who doesn't know much about this branch of science.

We'd already noticed that in several other threads. This might be the wrong thread for a quote, but here goes (I couldn't resist)...

It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from man.

 - H. L. Mencken

[Richmedia]

if you think that the theory of evolution states that homo sapiens evolved from chimps you don't know much about it at all. We have a common ancestor(s) and chimps and humans branched out from those ancestors a looooong time ago. Whenever I hear someone talk about being decended from monkeys I know I'm talking to someone who doesn't know much about this branch of science.

Okay, I'd be quite pleased if you can point me to this common ancestor. I also mentioned single-celled organisms. Every so-called "missing link" over the last one hundred years or so has turned out to be a bad PR hoax.

I'll stop by again, to check on your reply.

I do know that humans and chimps from the commonly known ape family share something like 97% of their respective DNA. I also believe that does nothing to prove anything, only that we're closely aligned.

Dolphin porpoises are quite smart, too, they are mammals, and might be as related to us as chimps. Which is to say that they likely are not directly descended.

Until there is proof, there is no proof. If anything even close to mankind's ascending and evolving from what we might consider to be a lower order and genus, I'll be happy to take a look at that time.

Until then,

go figure . . .

[Richmedia]

I forgot to mention that pigs DNA is close enough to allow organ transplants from swine to humans.

[lakelady]

here's a bit of reading for you Rich. Enjoy

http://www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoEvidence.html

[atthisaddress]

if you think that the theory of evolution states that homo sapiens evolved from chimps you don't know much about it at all. We have a common ancestor(s) and chimps and humans branched out from those ancestors a looooong time ago. Whenever I hear someone talk about being decended from monkeys I know I'm talking to someone who doesn't know much about this branch of science.

Okay, I'd be quite pleased if you can point me to this common ancestor.

I posted it in a different thread. It's your great-great-great-great grandpappy from millions of years ago.

[atthisaddress]

I forgot to mention that pigs DNA is close enough to allow organ transplants from swine to humans.

Indeed, because they have a common ancestor.

[Reality]

Rich: We need strong immunosuppressant medication to survive with such a transplant.

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